Paying Tomasz Wasilczyk for security improvements

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Paying Tomasz Wasilczyk for security improvements

Mark Doliner
Hi friends!

Someone from Google emailed me, Ethan and Sean a week ago.  They want
to donate $10,000 USD to IMF, which we then pay to Tomasz Wasilczyk
upon completion of some work.  Tomasz was a 2012 Summer of Code
student who worked on the Gadu Gadu protocol plugin.  The work in
question is assorted bug fixes and improvements to "improve the
security of Pidgin/Adium."  The donor didn't specify what, exactly.  I
think his requirements are someone loose.  I have a hunch he would
like to see the master password code finalized and merged.

The company would most likely pay us via a credit card donation
through the Pay Pal account that Ethan and I set up on IMF's behalf
last year.  We believe Pay Pal will charge a commission of 2.2% (or
possibly 1.9%, but I'm not optimistic) plus $0.30 USD for this
donation.  That comes out to $220.30 USD (or $190.30 USD, but I'm not
optimistic).  Because of this, the donor will probably donate a little
extra to cover the fee.  We might still end up covering some of the
difference from our current cash.  This amount should be less than
$300 USD... I'm guessing $30 USD.

PROPOSAL TO BE VOTED ON ONE WEEK FROM RIGHT NOW (I'll send a reminder)
Shall Instant Messaging Freedom, Inc. accept a large one-time
donation, then pay those funds to Tomasz Wasilczyk for assorted bug
fixes and improvements to improve the security of Pidgin and Adium?
And, if needed, shall Instant Messaging Freedom, Inc. make up for the
credit card processing fee by paying some money from our current
funds, of an amount not to exceed $300 USD.

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Re: Paying Tomasz Wasilczyk for security improvements

Ethan Blanton-3
Some clarifications.

Mark Doliner spake unto us the following wisdom:
> Someone from Google emailed me, Ethan and Sean a week ago.  They want
> to donate $10,000 USD to IMF, which we then pay to Tomasz Wasilczyk
> upon completion of some work.  Tomasz was a 2012 Summer of Code
> student who worked on the Gadu Gadu protocol plugin.  The work in
> question is assorted bug fixes and improvements to "improve the
> security of Pidgin/Adium."  The donor didn't specify what, exactly.  I
> think his requirements are someone loose.  I have a hunch he would
> like to see the master password code finalized and merged.

I want to stress here that we are *not* accepting funds to direct
Pidgin development.  Google and Tomasz worked out an agreement
independent of IMF, Inc., and the only thing we would be doing is
facilitating that agreement.  Google has indicated that they will not
"direct the work in detail", but the funds are earmarked for Tomasz to
work on security aspects, as Mark noted above.

I see this as a win-win situation for all involved; the community gets
funded security auditing and improvement of Pidgin/Adium/libpurple,
Tomasz gets some compensation for his time, and IMF fulfills our
charter of supporting IM software.

> The company would most likely pay us via a credit card donation
> through the Pay Pal account that Ethan and I set up on IMF's behalf
> last year.  We believe Pay Pal will charge a commission of 2.2% (or
> possibly 1.9%, but I'm not optimistic) plus $0.30 USD for this
> donation.  That comes out to $220.30 USD (or $190.30 USD, but I'm not
> optimistic).  Because of this, the donor will probably donate a little
> extra to cover the fee.  We might still end up covering some of the
> difference from our current cash.  This amount should be less than
> $300 USD... I'm guessing $30 USD.

I clarified this with PayPal, and we will for sure be changed 2.2%.

> PROPOSAL TO BE VOTED ON ONE WEEK FROM RIGHT NOW (I'll send a reminder)
> Shall Instant Messaging Freedom, Inc. accept a large one-time
> donation, then pay those funds to Tomasz Wasilczyk for assorted bug
> fixes and improvements to improve the security of Pidgin and Adium?
> And, if needed, shall Instant Messaging Freedom, Inc. make up for the
> credit card processing fee by paying some money from our current
> funds, of an amount not to exceed $300 USD.

I note also that I am happy to handle the treasurer-ish paperwork for
this, should there be any (tax or otherwise).  My understanding is
that this donation is not large enough to push us into more
complicated tax filing than our usual postcard.  There may be some
various small expenses related to sending funds out of the country,
but they should fall under our authorization for execution costs.

Ethan

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Re: Paying Tomasz Wasilczyk for security improvements

Mark Doliner
In reply to this post by Mark Doliner
On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Mark Doliner <[hidden email]> wrote:
> which we then pay to Tomasz Wasilczyk upon completion of some work

Small correction--I misspoke here.  I believe we would pay Tomasz as
soon as we can after receiving the donation (not contingent upon
completion).

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Re: Paying Tomasz Wasilczyk for security improvements

Luke Schierer-5

On Feb 20, 2013, at 13:09 EST, Mark Doliner <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Mark Doliner <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> which we then pay to Tomasz Wasilczyk upon completion of some work
>
> Small correction--I misspoke here.  I believe we would pay Tomasz as
> soon as we can after receiving the donation (not contingent upon
> completion).

Given the amounts involved, I believe we should do the formal call for a vote, with a set start and end time to voting.

That being said, I also think this sounds like a potentially good thing.

Luke

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Re: Paying Tomasz Wasilczyk for security improvements

Mark Doliner
On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Luke Schierer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Feb 20, 2013, at 13:09 EST, Mark Doliner <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Mark Doliner <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> which we then pay to Tomasz Wasilczyk upon completion of some work
>>
>> Small correction--I misspoke here.  I believe we would pay Tomasz as
>> soon as we can after receiving the donation (not contingent upon
>> completion).
>
> Given the amounts involved, I believe we should do the formal call for a vote, with a set start and end time to voting.

Yeah, that was my intention.
Vote start time:  Wed February 27, 2013 17:20:00 UTC
Vote end time: Wed March 6, 2013 17:20:00 UTC

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Re: Paying Tomasz Wasilczyk for security improvements

Mark Doliner
In reply to this post by Mark Doliner
On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 3:56 PM, William Ehlhardt
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Forgive my ignorance, but: why is IMF acting as a middleman here at all?

That's a good question.  It sounds like for Google it's easier to make
a donation to us than to pay Tomasz directly.  I don't know the
details.  Also maybe having IMF act as a middleman makes it more
likely that Tomasz will have the greater Pidgin/Adium/libpurple
community in mind when he makes his changes?  Rather than doing
specific work that benefits only one company.

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Re: Paying Tomasz Wasilczyk for security improvements

Evan D. Schoenberg, M.D.

On Wednesday, February 20, 2013 at 8:08 PM, Mark Doliner wrote:

On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 3:56 PM, William Ehlhardt
Forgive my ignorance, but: why is IMF acting as a middleman here at all?

That's a good question. It sounds like for Google it's easier to make
a donation to us than to pay Tomasz directly. I don't know the
details. Also maybe having IMF act as a middleman makes it more
likely that Tomasz will have the greater Pidgin/Adium/libpurple
community in mind when he makes his changes? Rather than doing
specific work that benefits only one company.

I don't have a problem with IMF acting as a middleman; I think it's appropriate for a nonrestricted grant type setup.

I don't see why Google would use a credit card to make this donation.  Why not an electronic funds transfer to the IMF checking account (no fees) or a physical check in the mail ($0.46 plus a fraction of a cent for a check)?

-Evan

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Re: Paying Tomasz Wasilczyk for security improvements

Ethan Blanton-3
Evan D. Schoenberg, M.D. spake unto us the following wisdom:
> I don't see why Google would use a credit card to make this donation.
> Why not an electronic funds transfer to the IMF checking account (no
> fees) or a physical check in the mail ($0.46 plus a fraction of a cent
> for a check)?

Google did not specify; it was made clear that corporate credit card
was the preferred method, however.  It is possible that the funds are
originating from Google UK, and perhaps that has something to do with
it.  Our own (IMF) experiences with international wires have been ...
not good.

Ethan

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Re: Paying Tomasz Wasilczyk for security improvements

Sean Egan

I suspect the employee in question plans to pay with a corporate card and go through the standard expense reporting, which would probably be a lot easier than figuring out how to get Accounts Payable to cut a check or wire transfer or whatever.

Purely speculation, though.

On Feb 20, 2013 6:37 PM, "Ethan Blanton" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Evan D. Schoenberg, M.D. spake unto us the following wisdom:
> I don't see why Google would use a credit card to make this donation.
> Why not an electronic funds transfer to the IMF checking account (no
> fees) or a physical check in the mail ($0.46 plus a fraction of a cent
> for a check)?

Google did not specify; it was made clear that corporate credit card
was the preferred method, however.  It is possible that the funds are
originating from Google UK, and perhaps that has something to do with
it.  Our own (IMF) experiences with international wires have been ...
not good.

Ethan

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Re: Paying Tomasz Wasilczyk for security improvements

Evan D. Schoenberg, M.D.
In reply to this post by Ethan Blanton-3

On Wednesday, February 20, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Ethan Blanton wrote:

Evan D. Schoenberg, M.D. spake unto us the following wisdom:
<div onclick="toggleBlockQuoteVisibility(event, '20130221023653.GA7056%40mail.kb8ojh.net-1361414213.2', '20130221023653.GA7056%40mail.kb8ojh.net-1361414213')" onmousedown="noevent(event)" class="-sparrow-quotedTextLabelHide" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 11px; color: rgb(0, 106, 227); white-space: nowrap; overflow: hidden; text-overflow: ellipsis; display: inline-block; cursor: default; -webkit-user-select: none; ">
I don't see why Google would use a credit card to make this donation.
Why not an electronic funds transfer to the IMF checking account (no
fees) or a physical check in the mail ($0.46 plus a fraction of a cent
for a check)?

Google did not specify; it was made clear that corporate credit card
was the preferred method, however. It is possible that the funds are
originating from Google UK, and perhaps that has something to do with
it. Our own (IMF) experiences with international wires have been ...
not good.
Hm. Can't argue with the person/group wanting to throw $10k at a problem, I suppose, especially since it was indicated they will contribute extra to cover fees to some extent…

…I agree with Ethan's earlier comments, and regardless of the financial specifics (within the < $300 range described) see this as a definite win-win, with minimal expenditure of IMF funds and great potential gains for the libpurple library.  

Separate issue for discussion which this raises is whether some portion of IMF funds might be well apportioned to funding bounties (e.g. via bountysource.com) for other open source IM security initiatives.  

-Evan

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Re: Fwd: Paying Tomasz Wasilczyk for security improvements

Ethan Blanton-3
In reply to this post by Mark Doliner
Daniel had some comments on this matter, but can't send to the list:

Daniel Atallah spake unto us the following wisdom:

> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:08 PM, Mark Doliner <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 3:56 PM, William Ehlhardt
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> Forgive my ignorance, but: why is IMF acting as a middleman here at all?
> >
> > That's a good question.  It sounds like for Google it's easier to make
> > a donation to us than to pay Tomasz directly.  I don't know the
> > details.  Also maybe having IMF act as a middleman makes it more
> > likely that Tomasz will have the greater Pidgin/Adium/libpurple
> > community in mind when he makes his changes?  Rather than doing
> > specific work that benefits only one company.
>
> If I put my devil's advocate hat on, I can think of some additional
> questions that someone could ask. For example:
> "Why is this being done privately instead of allowing people to apply
> for a fellowship?"
> I don't really have a problem with this being done this way, but that
> seems like the type of question that could be asked once this is made
> public.
>
> That said, I would be in favor of this. (I don't know if I get a
> official vote or not :))
>
> It'd be good if there were some sort of guidelines about what would be
> expected out of this.
>
> -D

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Re: Fwd: Paying Tomasz Wasilczyk for security improvements

Mark Doliner
On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 6:48 PM, Ethan Blanton <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Daniel had some comments on this matter, but can't send to the list:
>
> Daniel Atallah spake unto us the following wisdom:
>> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:08 PM, Mark Doliner <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 3:56 PM, William Ehlhardt
>> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> Forgive my ignorance, but: why is IMF acting as a middleman here at all?
>> >
>> > That's a good question.  It sounds like for Google it's easier to make
>> > a donation to us than to pay Tomasz directly.  I don't know the
>> > details.  Also maybe having IMF act as a middleman makes it more
>> > likely that Tomasz will have the greater Pidgin/Adium/libpurple
>> > community in mind when he makes his changes?  Rather than doing
>> > specific work that benefits only one company.
>>
>> If I put my devil's advocate hat on, I can think of some additional
>> questions that someone could ask. For example:
>> "Why is this being done privately instead of allowing people to apply
>> for a fellowship?"

A fair point.  Personally I think Tomasz is a good choice.  Especially
considering that many of us tend to be fairly busy, and it sounds like
Tomasz has available time.

>> I don't really have a problem with this being done this way, but that
>> seems like the type of question that could be asked once this is made
>> public.

Just want to note that this mailing list is public.  (Though I do
realize that you might have intended "public" as in "widespread news
coverage.")

>> It'd be good if there were some sort of guidelines about what would be
>> expected out of this.

Yeah, this is an interesting point.  I think we can probably trust
Tomasz to be responsible (though you could argue that "trust" is a
silly thing to depend on in a monetary transaction).  But even so,
when would his responsibilities be considered "fulfilled"?

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Re: Paying Tomasz Wasilczyk for security improvements

Mark Doliner
In reply to this post by Evan D. Schoenberg, M.D.
On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 11:06 PM, William Ehlhardt
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> (I'm not on board@, so please forward if necessary)
>
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 8:28 PM, Evan D. Schoenberg, M.D. <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> I don't see why Google would use a credit card to make this donation.  Why
>> not an electronic funds transfer to the IMF checking account (no fees) or a
>> physical check in the mail ($0.46 plus a fraction of a cent for a check)?
>
> This seems weird to me, too. Since I'm a Google employee,

Me, too.

> want to give me
> the name of whoever's offering to run this, and I can check what the deal is
> internally?

I'll start an internal email thread amongst us.

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Re: Paying Tomasz Wasilczyk for security improvements

Mark Doliner
In reply to this post by Sean Egan
On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Sean Egan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I suspect the employee in question plans to pay with a corporate card and go
> through the standard expense reporting, which would probably be a lot easier
> than figuring out how to get Accounts Payable to cut a check or wire
> transfer or whatever.

And of course we'll leave other payment options (check, ACH?, wire
transfer?) available to the donor, if he chooses.

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Fwd: Paying Tomasz Wasilczyk for security improvements

Mark Doliner
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Tomasz Wasilczyk <[hidden email]>
Date: Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: Paying Tomasz Wasilczyk for security improvements
To: Mark Doliner <[hidden email]>


Hi Mark,

thanks for CC-ing me. I would like to comment on some stuff, so please
forward this message to the list.

We (that means, me and few people from Google) tried to set up some
way to hire me to work on topic mentioned before. Unfortunately, it
turned out to be *really* complicated to do it straightway - huge
companies have its weird rules and procedures. They got the idea to
push it through IMF, as donations are more common and well defined in
their set of rules.

> I don't see why Google would use a credit card to make this donation.
> Why not an electronic funds transfer to the IMF checking account (no fees)
> or a physical check in the mail ($0.46 plus a fraction of a cent for a check)?

I think PayPal is just the easiest way to send funds internationally.

We didn't set (yet?) rigid requirements, I've only got a list of loose
tasks to comment on. A lion's share of discussion was about troubles
with setting any possible contract. However, I would prefer to see
some sort of soft/hard requirements when working on this. I would like
to emphasize, that the work isn't a simple do-some-tasks-and-forget,
it's rather a long-time allocation to care about security issues that
hurts Google. Also, it wasn't said, if tasks to do will be provided
only from Google, or both Google and IMF/Pidgin crew (merging master
password branch, for example, sounds interesting and useful).

Tomek

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Re: Paying Tomasz Wasilczyk for security improvements

Luke Schierer-5
I would like to remind everyone that we did set up a [hidden email] that receives the board@ emails so that there can be wider discussion including non-board members.

Luke

On Feb 21, 2013, at 16:56 EST, Mark Doliner <[hidden email]> wrote:

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Tomasz Wasilczyk <[hidden email]>
> Date: Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 1:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Paying Tomasz Wasilczyk for security improvements
> To: Mark Doliner <[hidden email]>
>
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> thanks for CC-ing me. I would like to comment on some stuff, so please
> forward this message to the list.
>
> We (that means, me and few people from Google) tried to set up some
> way to hire me to work on topic mentioned before. Unfortunately, it
> turned out to be *really* complicated to do it straightway - huge
> companies have its weird rules and procedures. They got the idea to
> push it through IMF, as donations are more common and well defined in
> their set of rules.
>
>> I don't see why Google would use a credit card to make this donation.
>> Why not an electronic funds transfer to the IMF checking account (no fees)
>> or a physical check in the mail ($0.46 plus a fraction of a cent for a check)?
>
> I think PayPal is just the easiest way to send funds internationally.
>
> We didn't set (yet?) rigid requirements, I've only got a list of loose
> tasks to comment on. A lion's share of discussion was about troubles
> with setting any possible contract. However, I would prefer to see
> some sort of soft/hard requirements when working on this. I would like
> to emphasize, that the work isn't a simple do-some-tasks-and-forget,
> it's rather a long-time allocation to care about security issues that
> hurts Google. Also, it wasn't said, if tasks to do will be provided
> only from Google, or both Google and IMF/Pidgin crew (merging master
> password branch, for example, sounds interesting and useful).
>
> Tomek
>
> _______________________________________________
> Board mailing list
> [hidden email]
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>
> _______________________________________________
> Discussion mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://pidgin.im/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discussion
>

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Re: Paying Tomasz Wasilczyk for security improvements

Mark Doliner
In reply to this post by Mark Doliner
On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Mark Doliner <[hidden email]> wrote:
> PROPOSAL TO BE VOTED ON ONE WEEK FROM RIGHT NOW (I'll send a reminder)
> Shall Instant Messaging Freedom, Inc. accept a large one-time
> donation, then pay those funds to Tomasz Wasilczyk for assorted bug
> fixes and improvements to improve the security of Pidgin and Adium?
> And, if needed, shall Instant Messaging Freedom, Inc. make up for the
> credit card processing fee by paying some money from our current
> funds, of an amount not to exceed $300 USD.

Oh hey, I never sent a reminder.  Sorry!  Let's start the vote on this
right now.  FYI it sounds like Google is willing to donate a little
extra to cover the cred card processing fee.  And yeah, we'll have to
figure out some details, like what the assorted bug fixes and
improvements will be, but I'm ok with figuring that out as we go.

I vote in favor.

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Re: Paying Tomasz Wasilczyk for security improvements

Evan D. Schoenberg, M.D.

On Saturday, March 2, 2013 at 11:54 PM, Mark Doliner wrote:

On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Mark Doliner <[hidden email]> wrote:
Shall Instant Messaging Freedom, Inc. accept a large one-time
donation, then pay those funds to Tomasz Wasilczyk for assorted bug
fixes and improvements to improve the security of Pidgin and Adium?
And, if needed, shall Instant Messaging Freedom, Inc. make up for the
credit card processing fee by paying some money from our current
funds, of an amount not to exceed $300 USD.
I vote in favor.

-Evan

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Re: Paying Tomasz Wasilczyk for security improvements

Ethan Blanton-3
In reply to this post by Mark Doliner
Mark Doliner spake unto us the following wisdom:

> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Mark Doliner <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > PROPOSAL TO BE VOTED ON ONE WEEK FROM RIGHT NOW (I'll send a reminder)
> > Shall Instant Messaging Freedom, Inc. accept a large one-time
> > donation, then pay those funds to Tomasz Wasilczyk for assorted bug
> > fixes and improvements to improve the security of Pidgin and Adium?
> > And, if needed, shall Instant Messaging Freedom, Inc. make up for the
> > credit card processing fee by paying some money from our current
> > funds, of an amount not to exceed $300 USD.
>
> Oh hey, I never sent a reminder.  Sorry!  Let's start the vote on this
> right now.  FYI it sounds like Google is willing to donate a little
> extra to cover the cred card processing fee.  And yeah, we'll have to
> figure out some details, like what the assorted bug fixes and
> improvements will be, but I'm ok with figuring that out as we go.
I vote in favor.

Ethan

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Re: Paying Tomasz Wasilczyk for security improvements

Luke Schierer-5
In reply to this post by Mark Doliner

On Mar 3, 2013, at 00:54 EST, Mark Doliner <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Mark Doliner <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> PROPOSAL TO BE VOTED ON ONE WEEK FROM RIGHT NOW (I'll send a reminder)
>> Shall Instant Messaging Freedom, Inc. accept a large one-time
>> donation, then pay those funds to Tomasz Wasilczyk for assorted bug
>> fixes and improvements to improve the security of Pidgin and Adium?
>> And, if needed, shall Instant Messaging Freedom, Inc. make up for the
>> credit card processing fee by paying some money from our current
>> funds, of an amount not to exceed $300 USD.
>
> Oh hey, I never sent a reminder.  Sorry!  Let's start the vote on this
> right now.  FYI it sounds like Google is willing to donate a little
> extra to cover the cred card processing fee.  And yeah, we'll have to
> figure out some details, like what the assorted bug fixes and
> improvements will be, but I'm ok with figuring that out as we go.
>
> I vote in favor.

I vote in favor

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